Canticles of the Unhomed
Tuesday, July 19, 2005
Okay, So I Feel Bad...
Okay, so ranting about Lakewood Church and the Osteens has pricked my conscience. You see, I am not so pure.
Last week I was courted by a large (weekly attendance: approx 8,000) church to head up their Young Adult ministry. They offered me the job, telling me they wanted to go more in a "post modern-slash-emergent" direction. In other words, a celtic prayer and a candle. They offered me $67,000/yr and a annual budget of $175,000-$200,000, and a congregation of 1,500 people twixt the ages of 18-35. They had offered me this job in the past, and I declined. I speak at their conferences and retreats, so they know me, and I have lots of contacts with their senior pastoral staff. Dream come true?
The worst part was that I was tempted. It took someone smarter (and hotter) than me talking me through it Friday night to help me come to a decision that I can live with.
The point is, my claim of moral/philosophic/theological purity is dubious to say the least.
But, its my blog. If you don't like it, go back to Russia. :)
Last week I was courted by a large (weekly attendance: approx 8,000) church to head up their Young Adult ministry. They offered me the job, telling me they wanted to go more in a "post modern-slash-emergent" direction. In other words, a celtic prayer and a candle. They offered me $67,000/yr and a annual budget of $175,000-$200,000, and a congregation of 1,500 people twixt the ages of 18-35. They had offered me this job in the past, and I declined. I speak at their conferences and retreats, so they know me, and I have lots of contacts with their senior pastoral staff. Dream come true?
The worst part was that I was tempted. It took someone smarter (and hotter) than me talking me through it Friday night to help me come to a decision that I can live with.
The point is, my claim of moral/philosophic/theological purity is dubious to say the least.
But, its my blog. If you don't like it, go back to Russia. :)
:: written by Matt Thompson, 5:20 PM
13 Comments:
Why wouldn't you take the job? Who else is going to get the big attendance/ big money churches to start spending time and money on the right things? I don't see how ranting about it on your blog will accomplish that.
(I realize my own words are full of hipocracy, but it begged to be said. My apologies for speaking with words, not actions)
(I realize my own words are full of hipocracy, but it begged to be said. My apologies for speaking with words, not actions)
So I make one little comment about how you haven't blogged in a while and we get the Matt Thompson blog novel? Subtitle: A Day in the life of M.T. ...now, THAT was sarcasm, mack.
and as for the post previous to mine...a very good point that was brought out soundly by yours truly...but it is about calling, not idealism...what might be ideal for the "emergent" movement might not mesh with Matt's calling...all between him and the Big Guy, I guess.
and as for the post previous to mine...a very good point that was brought out soundly by yours truly...but it is about calling, not idealism...what might be ideal for the "emergent" movement might not mesh with Matt's calling...all between him and the Big Guy, I guess.
The first comment was mine, I didn't realize I wasn't logged in as myself :(
Anyway, what I was taking exception too was not that Matt didn't end up taking the job. I was challenging Matt on his implication that somehow it was wrong for him to even consider taking such an offer. I have no problem with Matt having a different calling than "church X." And if he takes a job at "church X" because of pay or prestige then he has failed his calling. However, Matt needs to remain open to the fact that God may call him to "church X" at any time.
I do also think that Matt needs to consider differences in theology, philosophy of ministry, governance models, and a raft of other factors when deciding what churches he can and can't serve in a pastoral role. But every church has some systemic sins and/or inherent weaknesses. That can't stop pastors from accepting calls to lead those churches.
At the end of it I guess I wanted to call Matt on what I perceived as the whole plank in the eye thing. I'll let Matt decide if I have overstepped the bounds of our friendship is so doing; and whether he agrees or disagrees with my assessment.
p.s. I agree that spending $75 million on renovating an arena into worship space is a scandalous misuse of resources that God has entrusted to the church to steward.
Anyway, what I was taking exception too was not that Matt didn't end up taking the job. I was challenging Matt on his implication that somehow it was wrong for him to even consider taking such an offer. I have no problem with Matt having a different calling than "church X." And if he takes a job at "church X" because of pay or prestige then he has failed his calling. However, Matt needs to remain open to the fact that God may call him to "church X" at any time.
I do also think that Matt needs to consider differences in theology, philosophy of ministry, governance models, and a raft of other factors when deciding what churches he can and can't serve in a pastoral role. But every church has some systemic sins and/or inherent weaknesses. That can't stop pastors from accepting calls to lead those churches.
At the end of it I guess I wanted to call Matt on what I perceived as the whole plank in the eye thing. I'll let Matt decide if I have overstepped the bounds of our friendship is so doing; and whether he agrees or disagrees with my assessment.
p.s. I agree that spending $75 million on renovating an arena into worship space is a scandalous misuse of resources that God has entrusted to the church to steward.
Wow Matt. First of all, I'm really proud of you for getting this offer and thinking it through and challenging the easy answers. I love seeing that. This discussion has sorely added to my growing confusion of late on the unity of church and the difference. Which adds to my wariness of being involved in a church again, yet does not deter me from the knowledge that, sometime soon, I will need to be involved again. Like a moth to the flame. I'm so confused... But I've rambled onto a different track. My kudos to you.
At the end of the day, we have to live with our choices and decisions. A calling does not always equate the "big money" churches. There is more to calling then the almighty dollar and an ego to prove ones self worthy of praise and power.
I've been reading here for a while, so why not throw my hat into the ring?
Living with the decisions one makes is something we must deal with.
But listening to God's voice is at the top of the list of things to do, even when we don't want to. How many people stop to listen for "inspiration?"
And maybe yes, he might have passed up a cushy job in a mega church but i would rather minister to a few people who need it, than a bunch of people who want it.
There is more to life than a parish the has over 30,000 people at every service and a small preacher standing on a big stage, talking about the fact that he does not ask for donations but the money keeps rolling in giving him the ability to buy used sports arenas, turning church into a sporting event!
I saw the interview with the Osteens as well, here in Montreal not long ago, and if you want the truth about ministry maybe you should go look for the "Real Live Preacher" in Austin Texas and see what he says about "working for/on church."
You can find the link over on my blog.
Do the right thing, and listen to God's voice, and I think at the end of the day you will rest easier, then caving to the Almighty Dollar Bill. Isn't it better to cave to Almighty God than the almighty ego??
Jeremy
I've been reading here for a while, so why not throw my hat into the ring?
Living with the decisions one makes is something we must deal with.
But listening to God's voice is at the top of the list of things to do, even when we don't want to. How many people stop to listen for "inspiration?"
And maybe yes, he might have passed up a cushy job in a mega church but i would rather minister to a few people who need it, than a bunch of people who want it.
There is more to life than a parish the has over 30,000 people at every service and a small preacher standing on a big stage, talking about the fact that he does not ask for donations but the money keeps rolling in giving him the ability to buy used sports arenas, turning church into a sporting event!
I saw the interview with the Osteens as well, here in Montreal not long ago, and if you want the truth about ministry maybe you should go look for the "Real Live Preacher" in Austin Texas and see what he says about "working for/on church."
You can find the link over on my blog.
Do the right thing, and listen to God's voice, and I think at the end of the day you will rest easier, then caving to the Almighty Dollar Bill. Isn't it better to cave to Almighty God than the almighty ego??
Jeremy
Wow. Quite the response.
What disgusted me so much was not the church, nor its policies, practises or theology. What it was, was that I was considering it based upon what it do for MY CAREER. That made me feel small. A salary like that, a budget like that, etc, all combined to appeal to my ego and a sense that maybe I could finally have a alrger forum to disseminate my beliefs, blah, blah, blah. There was no consideration of calling, only opportunity. What this unnamed hot person did for me was help me remember that I am called to people, not to ministries, and that I belong to these people here. They own me, at least for the next couple of years. Maybe after that, I will consider a career in US Federal politics. I hear the scenery is nice.
Brad, I don't feel bad for considering it; I feel bad for considering it for the wrong reasons.
What disgusted me so much was not the church, nor its policies, practises or theology. What it was, was that I was considering it based upon what it do for MY CAREER. That made me feel small. A salary like that, a budget like that, etc, all combined to appeal to my ego and a sense that maybe I could finally have a alrger forum to disseminate my beliefs, blah, blah, blah. There was no consideration of calling, only opportunity. What this unnamed hot person did for me was help me remember that I am called to people, not to ministries, and that I belong to these people here. They own me, at least for the next couple of years. Maybe after that, I will consider a career in US Federal politics. I hear the scenery is nice.
Brad, I don't feel bad for considering it; I feel bad for considering it for the wrong reasons.
Well I knew I was smarter, but for you to finally admit your feelings for me and that I am in fact "hot"....wow man, I love you...no, I really love you, man...I mean I REALLY LOVE YOU, MAN.
Oh, I guess I blew the unnamed cover.
Oh, I guess I blew the unnamed cover.
Hey, as long as Erika is cool...
GO BACK TO RUSSIA? GO BACK TO RUSSIA? HOW DARE YOU RIP OFF MY SAYING THAT I RIPPED OFF OF AN OLD EPISODE OF THE SIMPSONS! IM OUTRAGED!
Matt,
I hear you. I guess my point is made moot by your clarification. Sorry about jumping to conclusions. I'm sure God will call the right person to serve those people (I don't think He will call anyone to the money or budget)
p.s. I think you made a good decision.
I hear you. I guess my point is made moot by your clarification. Sorry about jumping to conclusions. I'm sure God will call the right person to serve those people (I don't think He will call anyone to the money or budget)
p.s. I think you made a good decision.
Seldom have I seen the concept of "discerning a call" so eloquently applied to real life. I don't know that I would have had the same fortitude as to resist the allure of the dark side.
Matt - just to let you know, I ran into their senior pastor a few days ago at a conference, and after some talking, I got the offer myself and took the 68K (plus car allowance). I'll let you know my new phone number...
burn
